How To Move Abroad and Slow Travel as a Family

Yasi: Hello, Doris, welcome to Fast Track Podcast.

Doris: Hello Yasi. Thank you very much for having me.

Yasi: It’s my honor to have you, because I saw your post on Facebook group talking about how you develop a new career yourself and how you travel around the world with your family. I think it’s a very interesting story that I need to share it with my audience.

In today’s session, I think I will ask on behalf of my audience all the questions that they might be interested in, but also me personally. very interested in . Can you tell us a little bit about your background, what you do in the past? Yeah. And then later, what changed in life?

Doris: Yeah.

Sure. So my background is linguistics really. So I studied translation in Bologna in Italy, and then I did a second degree, so I studied Spanish, German, Italian, and English. I did a second degree in England, and that’s where my, I met my husband and that’s where we start, set, start settling. We lived in England for quite a few years in London and it was interesting because we, our idea was really to get settled and to stay there, and then things obviously changed.

I also am in so I started off with translation. That’s my background, but I quickly developed project management, account management, and then the past 10 years I worked in talent management. So that’s really where my expertise, where my career lied in. .

Yasi: Yeah. For the audience who didn’t know what changed, can you elaborate?

Like what changed later ?

Doris: Sure. So I had my first child when I was in, in London, I was working for a marketing implementation agency in talent management. And so we had our first child and as most people know, in England it is very expensive, childcare’s very expensive. And as I was expecting my second child we realized that really.

We would really just work for the childcare. And it wasn’t really in our plan, we wouldn’t see our children. They would just be in childcare all day. And that wasn’t really our idea of having a family, of raising a family. So we decided to actually just take the dive and move to southern Spain. Where childcare is just very much more affordable and very different.

This needed quite some preparation. So what we did was really talk to our managers and try and see what the options are and we worked out the way. I. Diverted slightly my career and my husband did the same. He’s in it so that we could actually work from remote. So it was back 15 years ago when the whole remote working wasn’t really a thing yet.

So we pioneered into that in both our companies to actually be able to work from broad and we took the dive and moved to Spain. And then again there we actually, the idea was to set them there and then after actually five years, We started, had another thought, reset our situation and realized that the children were now bigger.

We had three by the time and that we were We wanted to see more, we wanted to experience more. We didn’t just want to accept a certain life and just live a life with routines and just with the status. Cool. You have to, you gotta sudden gotta have a house and just have a normal life.

So that’s where we took a second deep dive and decided to move to Northern Ireland out of older countries and to restart a life and. Yes. And that was one of the,

Yasi: yeah. Back then were you and your husband still working at the same company?

Doris: Yes. So we were both working remotely and we organized our career the way that actually, I started managing all in my job.

I started managing all the copywriters worldwide, so it didn’t really matter where I was so I could actually move around. It was an advantage for the company, for me to actually be moving and living in different countries. So I did try to shift it towards that goal so that we could. Move on and become more, less, and less location.

So our jobs were less and less location relevant and we could basically work from anywhere. And how

Yasi: old were your children at that time?

Doris: So when we left Spain they were three, five, and eight, which they were very young and we did have, people around us. Society would judge us very heavily because you are not supposed to do that to your children because in, in the view of society, it’s actually something not normal.

No. Yes. Why did you choose Ireland? We wanted our children to actually. Learn English really well and realized that the options in southern Spain weren’t great. So we decided to actually go for a country where education is very good and which wasn’t just an expat haven, so we wouldn’t just hang out with all other experts, but where we would actually be able to immerse into the local.

Yeah, so we chose Northern Island Also. My husband loved surfing, so it was really sitting down and deciding what to want as a family. What are our values? What are our passions? , what is it we want in our next stage in our lives now that the children are a little bit older? And so Northern Ireland really made it on the list.

We really had a ProCon list with a lot of countries, to see all the options there are and decided for Northern Ireland because it has one of the best education in English speaking countries. .

Yasi: And then how long did you live there before you took on this world trip with the children?

Doris: We lived in Northern Ireland for two years, and then we decided that it was time to move again. Also, by that time we gotten used to this idea of. of slow traveling. And so it wasn’t such a big step anymore. The first step was the biggest one. But we yeah, so after two years we decided we wanted to experience something else.

I really wanted my children to learn German. And also I wanted them to learn how to snowboard because we both are love snowboarding. So out of all the options we had, we decided for Switzer. And that’s where we moved to. And we moved to Zurich and that’s where we lived for three years. And after those three years, the next stage came where we actually realized, right?

They now speak really good German. Let’s move on to the Italian. And then, so now we move to the Italian speaking part of Switzerland which is in Luana, on, on the Lake Luana. And this is where we are set at the moment. .

Yasi: Ah, so amazing. So how many children can how many language can your children speak?

Doris: So they now speak four languages fluently, and at school they also study French.

Yasi: Wow. Okay. Amazing. And do they adjust well to a new country or new place to new language? What’s your experience with that? ,

Doris: the first change was the most difficult one, obviously, because they, it’s hard to to just, to, to new countries so quickly.

But we did a lot of preparation work before we moved there. And we really In, into a game. So it was a game for us, so it was all about exploring it. It was almost like like a treasure hunt exploring things. So we drove all the way from southern Spain across Spain, France, and then on onto the ferry onto Ireland to really experience this move.

They could choose what to take with them. It was all about them actually selecting the school they like based on which had the coolest playground. So it was really getting them involved, heavily involved, even though they were quite small and really making it into a game rather than just telling them, we, we are moving somewhere, you’re gonna come.

So it was really a thing that we did as a family. So each of our moves really is about deciding together as a family. In fact, when we came from Northern Ireland, there was the choice between going to Qatar or to Switzerland, and they decided having decided on Switzerland. So it is really a decision that we take as a family and so we design each stage of our lives.

together. Really? .

Yasi: I think the next natural questions coming from most people would be, how do you manage your finances? Did you, did your company pay you differently based on where you live? Or how, like from Ireland to Switzerland is a big jump in cost in terms of cost of living.

Doris: In this case, I didn’t ask for a different pay. I I did stick to my payment. However, my husband, he did switch from the company he worked before to a different company in Switzerland because the cost of living is much higher in Switzerland. And in fact, after a few years in Switzerland, I then quit my job after 15 years with the same agency and set up my own

Yasi: Okay.

What’s your business? So my

Doris: business is really trying to focus on my passion and my values, and I decided to set up a business in relocation and travel coaching. So what I do is I help other families, mostly families, but also couples, individuals, to really prepare for these important changes in the life, whether it’s a big trip a year abroad, a sabbatical, or whether it’s actually a big move abroad with work or for personal reasons.

On their own with their partner or as a family. Yeah.

Yasi: And what usually, what would be the biggest, thing or factor they need to consider before relocate to another country or take a long travel? What would be the thing that people would never have ever imagined, but they need to prepare

Doris: themselves for?

For me, really, it’s less about deciding on a country. It’s really about taking a step back and really going deeper. Analyzing really what is it I want? What do I want to get out of this experience? What is my why together with whoever I go with, what is our why?

What is it really? Value, what is it that we really, that really makes us happy? Analyzing, our past travels and our past experience and really getting deeper there because it really is. If you’re happy as an individual, as a professional, as a in a partnership in a family, then everything else.

Force into, into place. So it’s really that step back rather than just focusing on the logistics, which country I go to which house do I rent, and and so on. So it is what I really focus on is it’s on the mindset really. It’s on the fact that you really open to a new experience.

No matter what comes, it will be great, trusting in, in the process that it will be amazing experience. Then everything else will fall in, in, into places. You prepare your milestones, you decide, prepare your pro and con list you explore all your options, and then you filter them down to the one that really works for everyone.

Best in this moment in time. Obviously, if you have children, a very important one for us really was always the education because it is a primary one, childcare and education because you do want to give them the best you can. Which was also one of the reasons why we chose Switzerland and at this stage, at the H D R N because it is just amazing education system.

But yeah, these are really the the main concern. .

Yasi: Okay. Interesting. You talk about the education system in Switzerland. In my last episode, I discover I discussed the topic of cost, the cost of raising a child in Switzerland. Funny enough is I have a guest who has experience with in Singapore, in Taiwan, and also I have families in China.

And I also, I used to live in Singapore for a long time, and also now living in Switzerland, , I just noticed. , relatively speaking compared to the income level. It’s very affordable to raise a child in Switzerland.

Doris: There are many ways now. Yes. That’s the, it’s key that that’s why we held off to move to Switzerland until they were actually all over four years old.

Cuz if they’re under four years old, the Chaco is exclusively expensive. Yeah, it is. It’s almost a salary going down a drain. So we decided to wait. , our little one was four and then we moved here, which is when the public, the the school is free and everything is free.

It’s literally absolutely free. There’s not even, everything, even the school trips, everything is included. So it is actually cheaper than anywhere else. Once you get beyond those first four years of.

Yasi: Exactly. Just the childcare. It’s very expensive in Switzerland, but everything else is much more affordable.

That’s true. How about in Spain? You mentioned that you moved from. UK to Spain because you have a, young child. Is this much affordable to have a younger child or toddlers

Doris: in Spain? That’s right. The years which tend to be the most expensive, especially in the uk and here in Switzerland are the first three years, whereas in, in Spain school starts when they’re three.

So from three on. Normal school. And before that the childcare, so the crisis, they are very affordable compared to the UK or Switzerland for that matter. So it was really, we were really deciding on this because it is, a major factor, especially having three children, it does make a huge difference in your finances.

So I think it’s the first thing you need to really look into before deciding where to go next. .

Yasi: Yeah. What is the cost of childcare in Spain?

Doris: So for children below the age of three, it’s actually 300 Euros

Yasi: per month. Oh, it’s a full day, month, or Friday? Yes. Monday to Friday,

Doris: yes. Wow, okay. Yes. That’s nothing compared to UK where it’s usually 2000 or more per month.

. and in Switzerland it could range up to 3003. Yeah. Thousand depends on the hour. Yes. Yes. So if you multiply that, your salary is gone basically.

Yasi: Exactly. Yeah. I think it’s really it’s a really big advantage if you can re do work remotely or independently, regardless of where you live.

And then you can do this g r b charge and. be mobile and then move around to another country when the children are bigger. When the situation changed, like what you did. And how about the, how old is your oldest one now?

Doris: Now he’s 15.

Yasi: Okay. , do you plan for him to study abroad or do you plan to move elsewhere as a family or yeah.

What’s

Doris: next? Yes, we already working on the next next step. We’ve been here for two years now, so it it comes natural to now move on to next and we’re already starting thinking about it. Obviously the older the children get, the harder this because they, they start having their friends, their football, their everything, and it does get harder.

In fact, the last move from Zurich to Luana was quite hard, but at the same time, it’s the first few weeks that are hard. Especially nowadays with social media. They’re still in contact. They can still see each other. And so it’s not a goodbye as it used to be in the old days. A goodbye for good.

And I’m sure the way the kids have been raised that eventually they will study abroad works somewhere. I’m quite prepared that every, each of them will be somewhere because, the world is their home by now. Freedom is in their DNA. It’s , everything seems much easier for them because it, they’re so used to it, they don’t know it any better.

Okay.

Yasi: So you, do you see the difference between your children who grew up in different countries, move around versus maybe the other children who have, so were boring. A place grew up in a place with the same family members nearby. Do you notice any difference?

Doris: What I notice is the flexibility and adaptability.

Like my children. It comes very easy for them to actually be around people they don’t know. People from other countries, people from other religions, other backgrounds, other races, because they’ve grown up like that and, starting, making new friends talking to. To, to random people is much easier for them than it would be for somebody who grew up in a very settled life and, a very routine life.

For those children, obviously changes are more abrupt. I do remember doing covid for many children it has caused a lot of anxiety and stress to whereas for my children they actually enjoyed, the, this period because it was just different, but it wasn’t, abruptive, it wasn’t.

Throwing them out of what they’ve known all their life. It has just been one more change. So it was much easier for them to adopt and to just accept the situation and make the best out of it.

Yasi: Yeah. And also at the same time, they acquire new language. That is really amazing. I remember when I was learning second, third, fourth language

I thought my fourth language I already forgot about. I so difficult. It took me so many years just to master one second language, but for young children, they can just, they hear it somewhere from the teacher at school playing with the other children, and they can speak the language.

Doris: Absolutely, they’re absolutely absolute sponges and it’s beautiful to see how they arrive. And within three months, we would study for 20 [00:19:00] years to, to really, speak a language properly and within three months they would just speak the language with. Accent. When we were in Northern Ireland, they would’ve this beautiful Northern Irish accent, we’re in southern Spain, this and wouldn’t, it’s very hard for me to get, I do speak German, but it’s just very hard to get that level of immersion and it’s all thanks to immersion. If there. We’ve always make sure that they go to, to, to public school, so to so that they are actually really immersed into the culture and surrounded by people locally, so that it is just a game really, it’s, there’s no, it’s not been hard on them or anything. Yeah. It’s just a game. Yeah. And once you learn one, once you learn a second language, a third and a fourth language, I’m sure you. , it becomes easy and easier because, you’ve got the structure that if you’ve got yeah, I think it’s really just getting easy and easier.

But with the

Yasi: school, do you need to prepare your kids, with like additional language classes or you just throw them into the school and then they pick it up from there?

Doris: We did prepare, before we went to Northern Ireland, we did prepare and start, getting them to watch some platoons in English and, to just read English books and just get them into the whole setting so that it actually is something they associate with fun and they associate with playing and with games.

So it wasn’t something shocking for them, , but yes, it is really throwing them in and the first two days are hard. They’re hard on the kids and they’re hard on the parents because it is, you’re really throwing them into the unknown. Yeah. But within a matter of days, especially if you prepare well with the teachers and with the surrounding, activities and everything, and you speak to them and you talk about their fears and about their anxieties it becomes a beautiful game again.

It’s really about you. Doing it as a, at a discovery game, and it’s it turns into something really beautiful and within a few days they feel at ease. . But it’s about really, before moving to the new place, talk to the people, introduce yourself. Let them know you are coming so that everyone is understanding and really.

Is open, receives you with open arms. ,

Yasi: Would you recommend to move abroad like to, with a new language when the kids. Before six years or before primary school, is it better for them? Or what if they started school and then they jump into a new environment, but they have to still learn the mathematics, learn the, or the science, but in a foreign language that they don’t know?

What would you recommend?

Doris: I think the smaller they are, the easier it is because obviously, it is just a game for them really. The older they get, they might. and they’ve never moved. Then it might just be, getting for them bigger and they might just be more anxious.

But as I’ve learned, across all the different school systems we’ve worked with been sending children to four different school systems by now in, in four different countries, there may be slight difference in things they learn in some place. They learn them earlier or later or differently.

But at the end of the day, they just learn the same things. And it’s interesting to see how differently they approach, let’s say mathematics in Spain, mathematics is done completely different than it is in Northern Ireland or in Switzerland. And it’s so interesting for the children to see that there are different approaches and it was interesting to see by children that.

Depending on the child, they will pick it up in different la different countries differently because one system would work better for them than another. So it is just seeing that it’s just one same thing. Yeah. Approached differently.

Yasi: Okay. So next question would be, many people, it sounds very attractive, for those who want to experience different cultures, also bring their kids to different places or even just as couple, how can someone find remote

Doris: work?

I think it’s really starting to sit down and think about the options. You’ve got your job and maybe it’s a job that can’t be done remotely, but there’s so many different options that you can do this job. So it’s really just sitting down and thinking about the options and working out what could I do with my skillsets, how could.

Move my career into a way that is more easily done in, in remotely, and I can assure it, every single job has options. It’s just a matter of exploring them, doing your research and seeing what’s out there and if needed, doing a slight diversion into a different direction. The same happened for me.

I was in, in project management, working directly with clients. So obviously that’s really hard to do from remotely. So that’s when I moved into talent management, managing people who are all over the world anyway, so it doesn’t really matter. So it’s really about having that flexibility and, setting your priority if you’re, if you really want to move abroad.

you’re just gonna have to adjust your career in a direction that would work remotely. And if that’s not an option, then it is always an option to set up something yourself. Obviously it comes with I’m learning myself, having been employed all these years and then suddenly having my, being my own boss comes with a lot of downsides that I never considered.

Which is my, where your, all your podcasts have have helped me. Get a more realistic understanding of this new setup.

Yasi: Yeah. And also companies, in many companies, there’s this sabbatical program, people can take a year or two off just to experience leaving abroad and then come back. They still have the position.

Right.

Doris: That’s absolutely an option that, that, that should really be followed. I always say that everyone should want in their. Take that opportunity and and really take one of those sabbaticals. It does change your life. It does open your horizon and when you come back, you do appreciate life in a different way.

And you grow as a person more than you would ever think you would. So it’s absolutely something that is, it’s a win-win situation for both the employer and the employee to actually, yeah. Have these programs in. . Yeah. Okay.

Yasi: And let’s talk about like young babies. Do you recommend parents bring young babies abroad or maybe one year old or two years old than you consider moving to another country?

Doris: I think, as I said before, the smaller they are the easier it is because the less. Needs They have really, if, small babies, all they need is their parents really. A few toys and just the warmth of a home. And that you can offer them anywhere.

So really the smaller, the easier than the older they get, the school days, childcare, whatever. But yeah, I think any age is a good age. I often hear from my clients saying once they grow up and once they’re distant, and once they’re. Now is the time. Now is the time to do these things.

You’ve got your dream, do it now. You don’t know what happens tomorrow. If there’s another covid crisis or something around why not doing it now? Yeah. And of my, especially the clients that finally have taken the leap, they tell me why did I not do it earlier? Here is all the time and it’s very interesting to see how it has transformed them and. Positive has, it has been, it obviously, realistically there are always downsides, which, yeah. It’s something I also work with my clients to actually, just have a clear, realistic expectation of what’s happening.

It’s not all just rainbows and unicorns. It’s important to, see the whole thing did as. .

Yasi: And from your work with the clients, what are some of the biggest fears people have?

Doris: It’s really the main fear is really taking that first step. I always, I see it all the time, it’s really starting allowing yourself to think that your dream could actually be, become reality.

And it’s always interesting to see how in the first few sessions, it’s just a dream. We are just talking about a dream. And then halfway through they. This could actually become reality. And then towards the end of the session, usually it’s five sessions, they realize this is becoming reality. But the [00:28:00] main fear , on one hand it’s actually announcing it to the people around you.

What will they think? What will they say? It’s fear of reaction from everyone else to actually go against expectations. And then it’s fear of failure. It’s fear of yeah. Thinking, what if doesn’t work out. Yeah. And that’s where I really work through with them.

What’s the worst case scenario? What can happen? And once they realize, actually the worst that can happen is that we actually turn home, which isn’t really worse because it’s where we actually are. Worst comes to worst, nothing changes. That’s when they realize actually, this is worth a try.

Yeah.

Yasi: Okay. My last question would be for anyone who’s interested in exploring this with you. H what is the process working with you? How did you take them through the journey planning there? Move,

Doris: move abroad? So my usual usually it’s five sessions and in the first session we really go through, I try to get to know them get to understand their limiting beliefs and their fears and, where their comfort zone ends.

And we try to really take a step back and look What has worked them in past and, go through the experience they’ve had so far. We then work on their passions and our on their values. So we just go a little bit deeper. If it’s a couple and they do it separately, and then we analyze it together.

And also as a family, it’s more of a group thing. And then we really take that down and take all the, all this information to see how can we incorporate this into redesigning your new life. What? Things do you want to take from your past life? What happy emotions do you want to take and put into your new life?

How can you redesign it so that it’s not just a move abroad because your job sends you wherever, but you actually have this opportunity to recreate your new life based on the needs that you have right now as a family, as a couple, as an individual. and then it’s really going more into the practicalities, we really prepare the milestones, we work on the milestones, and then we prepare a timeline and then we really work it through so that, they’re fully ready to, to just go.

Yasi: Yeah. So how can people find you? How can they contact you? Can you share with us your social media, your email

Doris: address? Sure. I’ve got my website www qari travel.com, and I’m also on Instagram  @cadario_travel , on Facebook, which is where we meet. We met and on LinkedIn, Doris Dario.

I’ve started now helping working together with companies to help their employee. on this, in this stage when they actually move abroad with work. That’s also a different way where I’m now working more mostly with professionals who actually move abroad through work, where actually their companies are paying for this program.

Yasi: Yeah. Okay. Sounds amazing. Alright then I will leave the links in the description. So thank you so much for being here, Doris. It’s definitely one of the topics that me personally very interested in. Thanks for sharing your personal experiences and I hope some of the audience will reach out to you if they’re interested in having a new life abroad or experienced different things in life with their families and beloved ones.

Doris: Thank you so much for having me. Yes, it’s been an absolute pleasure.