The True Cost of Homeownership: Emotional or Financial Decision, Chat With Live For Free

Yasi: Hi Live For Free, welcome to Fast Track Podcast.

Live For Free: Thanks Yasi. I love what you’ve been doing here. I’m a close follower of Imagineer, Art of Purpose, Millennial Money Woman, who are all on Twitter, and they all have also been guests on your podcast. So, I’m really pumped to be here.

Yasi: Exactly. Thank you. I want to ask you about personal development, cause you mentioned that you are passionate about personal development and you met some people, and you have to keep up. What got you into this topic?

Live For Free: Yeah, absolutely. As a young man, I was fortunate enough to receive the book, Awaken The Giant Within by Tony Robbins. Now at this time in my life, I’m working at the local power company, and I’m making a good wage, but the book Awaken The Giant Within had inspired me to take a deeper look at myself, know that there are bigger things for me, and, you know, just find that purpose that fit my soul.

And from there, I decided that I was going to become a firefighter and become the best person I could be. This is back in the ’90s, Tony Robbins is the biggest game in town. I do have to say that if I had not read that Tony Robbins book, I don’t think I would have become a firefighter.

Yasi: Well, the other book I really like is the Seven Simple Steps To Financial Freedom — the Money book from Tony Robbins.

Yeah. That changed my view towards how I should manage my own money. I think everybody needs to read that book. And so, which high output individuals have you worked with? How did they inspire you?

Live For Free: Well, the high end I’ll put individuals I worked with were actually the firemen themselves or the firefighters themselves. Now, to become a firefighter, you have to be fairly fit. And most of the people that I do work with are athletic. They’re either high school athletes, former collegiate athletes, we have quite a few former pro hockey players that work with us, including former NHL players. So when I first became a firefighter, I thought I was fairly fit, but when I got there, and I mean, these guys, it was just unbelievable how incredibly fit, superhuman strength. It was jaw-dropping to see how strong some of these guys were.

So from there, I realized that I actually had a lot of work to do, and I had to work hard just to keep up with the herd. And I mean, what a great place to be for a young man. And I was enthused to be there and, you know, just looking forward to becoming the man that I wanted to become at that time.

Yasi: I’m wondering how fit those firefighters up there in Canada, is the bar much higher than the other countries?

Live For Free: Maybe. And, you know, I don’t want to toot our own horns, right? Many of the guys that I work with, there were also high output individuals off the job and, you know, like many of the firefighters I work with were real estate investors, business owners, guys became lawyers, guys became pilots.

We have martial arts, black belts, triathletes. So there are just so many great examples for me to follow. And I did follow, and I did learn, and I was lucky to be exposed to these individuals at a young age. I was raised by a single mother. We had difficult times growing up, and I didn’t have a whole lot of positive male role models for me to follow.

So it was just a great spot for me to be surrounded by these outstanding individuals, and, you know, I just found myself being forced to become the person that even know I wanted to be, and I’m just truly blessed. And one of the cool things now is I find myself in the position where I’m helping the younger firefighters bring up their own game.

And, you know, they see me hustling in the gym, running businesses, just the examples that I picked up from the older firefighters when I was a rookie, and it’s such a cool place to be, and I’m really proud of being the work that is done right now.

Yasi: And looking back, what do you think are the most important lessons you learned from those people or you learn from your own personal experience you want to share with the audience?

Live For Free: I mean, on top of being high output individuals, you know, the amount that I learned about teamwork, leadership, being a kind and compassionate person, the experience is second to none. You know, when you’re a firefighter, the bond becomes very close, and my crew is amazing.

And, you know, nobody loves each other the way we love each other. And I’m getting a little bit choked up here, but it’s just a beautiful experience being a firefighter.

So, the most important lessons that I think I would learn would just really, and I mean, I don’t want to sound cliche here, but it is the mindset.

Mindset will save your life. The proper mindset can make you fit, mindset can bring you wealth, and if you have the mindset to become fit, you have the same mindset to bring you wealth and vice versa. So you’ll find that it’s not a linear process, there will be trial and error. Mindset just makes life easier.

And I’m not talking about just positive self-talk here, I’m talking about the mindset where you educate yourself, you put it into practice, you find the answers to the questions that come up, and I just find it so difficult because there are so many people there that just don’t even want to try and reach their full potential.

And especially with these days, there’s just so much help out there. The Fast Track Podcast, for example, right? But I mean, people like Jocko Willink, Joe Rogan, David Goggins. There’s just so much help out there. And these guys are mindset experts, and most of the content is completely free. So I highly recommend that people just take advantage.

Yasi: And I really agree with you because last time, basically the new episode I just released with Faisal, he is a life coach, and we talk about 10 X life. A lot of people they’re living a life, you know, you have not discovered your full potential, so you’re just live day by day, but once you discover your own full potentials and think big and live a 10 X life, it’s much more fulfilling, you achieve more in life. It’s really about a mindset. I agree.

Live For Free: Absolutely. And I mean, for me, like attitude too. So the attitude and mindset, I mean, for me, it’s really the same thing. You make life work for you, not against you. Just know that challenges are coming, but it’s just how you face those challenges. Any challenge can be broken down into manageable steps. And, yeah, you’re completely right.

And I just want to spread the word, and I’m glad that you have me here.

Yasi: Yeah, therefore, I have you on this podcast so we can help our audience to, you know, improve their mindset or switch perspectives. Earlier, you mentioned about this is the same thing, be it fitness, be it health, be it wealth creation.

Then since when did you get into investing? And particularly, you mentioned to me that real estate investing, that’s what you do.

Live For Free: Yeah, absolutely. So, I was a homeowner in my twenties, and, you know, I was quite proud of myself for reaching this financial milestone. Back then, I own the house, and I had roommates live with me and helped me pay down the mortgage.

And in my thirties, my wife and I had a house built for us, and it was a nice house, great neighborhood, but I found that not only was it eating up a larger portion of our income, it was eating up a large amount of my time. Now at this time, one of my favorite shows to watch was Income Property with Scott McGilvery on HGTV.

And on this program, Scott helps new real estate investors add on or renovate income-producing units to their primary house on their primary residence. And the new investors were able to significantly reduce their housing payments on their primary residence by adding on or a rental unit.

And I was like, perfect, I’m going to do this. And the more I thought of this, the more I got to thinking if I did this concept to a larger scale, I could structure this so that I would have zero housing payments. So I got searching for a property that I could live in one unit, rent out the rest, work on the cash flow, and then have that cash flow cover all my expenses.

Now, at this time, I have a family — my wife, who was a high output individual. I like to surround myself with the higher output individuals, Yasi. So, my idea was to move us out of our gorgeous 3,500 square foot house overlooking the city and have us move into an apartment so we can reduce our housing payments.

Now, this was going to be a hard sell. At this time, I’m actually reading the Four Hour Workweek with Tim Ferriss, what a great book! So I made the proposal to my wife, I ran the numbers with her, and I said, now think on it. But before you give me an answer, I want you to read this book, The Four-Hour Workweek.

Now, this was such a great book because it talks a lot about comfort zones, trying new things, and estimating what the worst that can happen. And, you know, for us, the worst that can happen usually isn’t that bad. In our case, if it wasn’t going to work out, we could just sell the building and buy another house. And we live in Canada, so how bad could it be, right? And at this time, we’re also overly busy. So, she read The Four-Hour Workweek and said, okay, we’re going to do this, and we’re going to make it work great. And I’m not sure, have you read The Four-Hour Workweek?

Yasi: I have both physical and digital versions.

Live For Free: Yeah. Very good. So, yeah, that’s a great surprise and I kind of figured it’d be on your bookshelf within arms reach. So yeah, it was just such a great tool because the comfort zone and what’s the worst that can happen calculator really helped hone my wife into the decision that yeah, we can make this work, and if it doesn’t work, we’ll move on to something else, right? So, from there, we hired a consultant that we could learn the business from, read books and just learned all the ins and outs of multi-family real estate, certain to look for a property level, accommodate us and have the cash flow to make it work.

And we found a building in a downtown location, an up-and-coming small town, about 40 minutes from where we live, and the price was right. And we never looked back. We had two commercial units with four new residential units that needed some work. And the first year of the building was rough, but we enjoyed the process. The learning experience was everything that I had hoped for. When we bought the building, the commercial space was vacant. So we used that as an opportunity to fix it up, and we’re able to get it rented. We didn’t find a renter right away. But once we got a renter, it took a few months.

We were off to the races. A couple of the residential units were also unoccupied. So, we combined those two units and made it into a bigger unit. And, you know, the building that we bought, it’s an old bread factory. And so it’s a nice open floor plan for us to work with. Through the whole process, my wife and I worked together, and it brought us closer.

We learned a lot about each other, we learned a lot about ourselves, and it was when you take on a large and complicated process or project, you become better at handling large and complicated projects, which is a great skill to have. So, once we started to live for free, we found ourselves better able to take care of ourselves, better take care of each other and live life more on our terms.

Yasi: And how did you decide to start and invest in this project? If you have never had something similar done in the past, where did you get this confidence to start with?

Live For Free: Well, really, the confidence started with having, we call him a consultant, but really it was a mentor. So, you know, we had hour-long calls with him, we would find deals, and then we’d go through those deals with him. And he would teach us the ins and outs of what was good with the deal, what was bad with the deal. And the more you do that, the better you become at the process, and from that, we were able to find a building where the cash flow work and it had the capacity for us to move our family in.

And the funny thing is when we decided to do this, that we were going to sell our house, move into the apartment building, we actually didn’t tell anybody else what we were up to. You know, once we were fully financially committed, everybody thought we were crazy, but it turned out very well.

We actually still live in our loft. It’s 2,500 square feet. It has its own entrance, and everything is a one to two-minute walk away. The park is right across the street. We back onto a river, and we just love how much privacy that we have here. And when we started to live for free, our opportunities grow dramatically, and with a few short years, we had the time and the money to do anything that we wanted.

Yasi: So you moved to a smaller place? Or you invested in commercial and residential properties, then you had a cash flow, then you save money from your mortgage that you would have to spend on it? Is that how you

Live For Free: That’s exactly how it is. So, we do live in the building, we still have our building, the cash flow from the stores that we rent out and from the other residential units that we rent out covers all the expenses of where we live. So essentially, that’s how I came up with Live for free. I have my Twitter account, and I try and keep a positive mindset, and I talk a little bit about real estate.

So, once when you or anybody, their housing costs are always almost the highest expense that they have. If you can get rid of that, that really just frees up a lot of capital to do other things.

Yasi: Yes. We talk about the big three: housing, transportation, and food. And I have two questions.

One is, how did you feel after you moved into a smaller apartment versus what you had before? How long does it take you to adjust? And then the second question is, how did you really get to make the decision to downgrade? Because mentally it’s just really difficult, you know, you live in a very comfortable place, then you have to downgrade. Like how you overcome this barrier?

Live For Free: Yeah, no, those are great questions. And I mean to adjust, yeah, it was. You know, psychologically, we’re driven to believe that when you own a house, and you live there, you’re the King of that castle, right? But you’re not the King of the castle until it’s completely paid off, the bank owns the house, and they’re the King of that castle.

So yeah, it was really hard psychologically to get over that. And when I say downgrade, it may have been a housing downgrade, but it was actually a lifestyle upgrade. Having the cash to do things that we want, we travel a lot, we get outside a lot. We use our money to buy other income-producing assets.

So, it’s a really liberating feeling. Even if you can lower or reduce your housing payments by 50%, it really makes an amazing difference. So, when it comes to how do you deal with these things, when you have more money available to do the things that you want, it feels great.

Yasi: Yeah. It’s freedom. You free yourself from the housing expenses.

Live For Free: That’s right. And that’s what I’m here for. And that’s my message that I spread is. Like everyone talks about reducing costs, but when they say reducing costs, it’s like, okay, maybe get rid of Netflix, don’t drink Starbucks.

You know, those things… Yeah, absolutely, they make a difference. But look at the bigger picture, look at the bigger things that are eating up, that you feel like you don’t have control over. You do have control over those bigger expenses. I have a little 2008 VW golf that I burn back and forth to work with.

It’s just those sorts of things. I ride my bike a lot. Yeah, those will save money too, but if you can reduce your housing costs, that’s really the big one.

Yasi: I did the research in the past for an article, you know, in some countries, people pay one-third of their monthly salary for housing costs. In London I think it’s up to 42% and using your concept if they manage to live for free, it’s like 33% to 42% of the income it’s now available for you to, you know, live your life, travel, you know, eat better food or, you know, do other things. It’s quite a big chunk of your income, right?

Live For Free: It’s a great concept. So when we did the research for the Live For Free concept, it just wouldn’t work in the city that we lived.

I’m from Ontario, Canada, where the housing prices are high, any real estate is high. So, we did move to a smaller town, where the real estate burden was a little bit better. And so I’m not saying that you’ll be able to do it within your city that you live in, but you’ll be able to do it somewhere within one hour of that city that you’re living in. it is a concept that anyone can do, especially if you have a house because you could sell that house, use that cash, which you do need cash to invest into, multi-residential or commercial real estate.

Yasi: And you mentioned several times cash flow. Is cash flow a very important factor to look at when someone, you know, starts to invest in real estate properties?

Live For Free: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, cash flow is just so difficult to gauge, worldwide or even nationwide, right? You have to find a real estate expert in your area that will help you work with the cash flow. And the great thing about when you’re investing in multi-residential real estate or commercial real estate is the cashflow numbers are always available, right.

They have to provide what the cash flow has been in the past few years, and then you can project if you can make more cash flow from that current cash flow. Yeah, it’s very important. And I mean, when it comes to real estate, multi-residential real estate or rental real estate, that’s the number one factor,

Yasi: Right. And what are the common mistakes people make when purchasing a home or investing in real estate? What do you think?

Live For Free: I would say the most, like for buying a house, the most common mistake is people underestimate the variable costs that come with owning a house. And number one, it’s an incredible amount of work to buy a house.

Like even let’s just say off the top of her heads, up a hundred thousand dollars down payment, that is a lot of money to try and raise if you have a job, could that $80,000 be used somewhere else? That’s the question for later that we can answer. So, when you buy a house, you have fixed costs, right?

You have your mortgage, taxes, utilities, insurance; those are your fixed costs. They’re the same every single month. But when we talk about variable costs, you know, when you buy a house, almost every facet of that house will have to be replaced within 20 to 25 years. And I’m talking roofs, eavestroughs, windows, doors, bathrooms, appliances, all that, all those sorts of things. And I don’t know about you guys in Europe, but in Canada, we are renovation crazy. We are the birthplace of HGTV, the renovations are happening all the time. Would you like to do a quick exercise with me, Yasi?

Yasi: Yeah. Sure. And also, by the way, I like to watch HGTV!

Live For Free: Who doesn’t! What a great show.

And I mean, I’ve found out through Twitter that a lot of them are scripted, but it’s still so fun to watch, great, great ideas. And yeah, but HGTV, II’msure it costs people a lot of money watching that show because you always want to update what you have, right?

Yasi: Yeah.

Live For Free: With a lot of people, I do go through an exercise, and it’s just going through the replacement cost of a house. Let’s say you own this house for 20 years. So we just, we just run through the replacement costs. So, likewe’lll stop it, start at the top, and thenwe’lll just work our way down.

So, let’s say a roof, like how much off the top of your head do you think a roof would cost?

Yasi: Oh, if you talk about Switzerland, I think 10k, 20k

Live For Free: 10k, 20k? Well, we’ll stick with the US prices, and we’ll say $12,000. The eavestroughs, like the rain takeaway, we’ll just say $2000 off the top of the head.

Furnace and HVAC, like heating, ventilation, and cooling, we can just say like $5,000. Does that seem appropriate?

Yasi: Okay. I really have no idea, but that’s

Live For Free: You have no idea. Well, I’m a contractor. I’ve flipped houses, and I have lots of contractor friends, so I have a fairly good idea of what things cost, but I will just say two bathrooms.

Like if you have a 20-year-old bathroom, you’re going to want it replaced, right? So, we’ll say just $10,000 a bathroom, so there’s 20. Now kitchens, this one is actually hard to pin down. Some people will spend $15,000, some people will spend $50,000. So, I’m just going to stick with $20,000 to replace a kitchen and twenty-five thousand for new windows and doors.

And I’m going to say flooring, let’s say it’s a 2000 square foot house, we’ll go with about $20,000 for flooring. Now appliances are a funny thing, too, right, Yasi? They don’t last for 20 years.

Yasi: No. Yeah, they don’t.

Live For Free: Yeah. And I would say maybe 10 years. So, if we did two sets of appliances, I would say that’s probably close to $10,000. And replacing a driveway, whether you go asphalt or concrete, I’m going to go with a low number, and I’m just going to say $4,000, like a patio on a deck. I’ll just stick with about $5,000. And landscaping is just impossible to even come up with a general number. I’ve seen people spend $300,000 on landscaping.

Yasi: What?

Live For Free: You think about a pool, rock features, gardens, like people really

And when you have a pool here in Canada, you have to have a four-foot fence that locks. So, having a pool here in Canada, which many people do, is actually really expensive. But for landscaping, I’m just going to give a little low number of $5,000 because I think people, a lot of people, are going to argue with my numbers that I give, but essentially all these things. If you own a house for 20 years, you’re going to be replacing them once. At least once. When it comes to a bathroom, I bet you there are people that change, that renovate their bathroom every 10 years. So, I don’t think my numbers are outlandish, and these are today’s numbers, and they’re only going to get higher.

So, when we add all these numbers up, man, I kind of lost count here, but I’m going to say it’s probably $130,000, right? And if you divide that number, $130,000 by over 20 years, that’s 240 months.

You know, that’s almost $600 a month. That’s a lot of money, especially if your fixed costs are $2,000 a month, you know, we’re pushing 30%. And so I think a lot of people are overlooking these numbers, and nobody is giving the real cost of what it costs to own a house. The bankers won’t tell you; the realtors won’t tell you; contractors won’t tell you.

It’s just something that you have to find out the hard way. Now, I know a lot of people are going to argue with the numbers that I’ve given here, but you know, the government does allow owners and landlords to write down depreciation on equipment and property. Because as soon as the building is erected, it begins to deteriorate from day one.

The variable costs on homes are being overlooked. I would never say, don’t buy a house. I really believe that everyone should create the life that pleases them, but I really want homeowners to start being realistic about what their home is costing them. If people are renovation crazy, which a lot of people are, it’s even higher than $600 a month.

Renovations right now are getting really expensive. Lumber’s expensive, labor’s expensive, they are much higher than people are willing to admit.

Yasi: It’s interesting because in Canada you talk about renovation like crazy, and I check out some new buildings in Switzerland, they are more or less, all the same, you know, standard toilets, standard kitchen, standard appliances.

It can be from, you know, the oven can be from Zug, this V-Zug company in Switzerland or can be from Germany, the Bosch or Siemens, like pretty much they are all standard, and you don’t have much room to customize it, unless before they build a building. Then you can say, okay, I want to have this wall one meter to the left and this plug and that and that, but it’s pretty much all standard.

Live For Free: It’s all standard, but so would they last for 20 or 25 years, or do they get replaced within? What would you say?

Yasi: Yeah, I think you need to do renovations every now and then for sure.

Live For Free: Okay. Cause what, and you, you live in a harsh climate too. Roofs do need to be changed quite quickly.

If you live in a very sunny environment, that has its downfalls too, but yeah, we are renovation crazy here in Canada, but another thing here in Canada and probably the US is like our average house size is about 2000 square feet. I’m just trying to calculate what that would be in meters.

Yasi: Less than 200 square meters.

Live For Free: So, we have larger houses here in North America, and therefore we probably have higher renovation costs, and thanks to HGTV, the renovations just happen a lot more than people think.

Yasi: When you live in such a big house, you need to pay more for electricity, for heating, for even maintenance on flooring. Everything is much more.

Live For Free: Yeah. And my mum lived in the UK for a few years. And so when I would go visit, I was actually really surprised how efficient everything is in Europe. You do more with less space, and it really doesn’t make that much of a difference in your lifestyle. So, yeah, that’s another thing that we, here in North America, need to just be more, have the lifestyle more of the Europeans where we do more with less space.

Yasi: I think also you have the luxury, maybe not in major cities in the US and Canada, but some of the housing prices are quite low, relatively lower than certain cities in, let’s say, Singapore, Hong Kong, UK, London, or Switzerland. So, of course, not everyone can buy a big house, so they have to stick with a reasonable living space.

I wonder why you need it, I don’t know if it’s the same in Canada, why you need a living room and the family room.

I don’t understand this concept.

Live For Free: Yeah. It’s because we can have this space, I guess, and I’m guilty too, because my wife and I have our own living room and then our daughter, we had to still have a daughter at home, she has her own little living room there too. So, yeah, that’s a good question. And we can definitely do more with less.

Yasi: When I watch some home renovation shows, I couldn’t comprehend why you need two living rooms, just two different names. And the other thing is the breakfast area and the formal dining area. Like what’s the difference between where you eat versus the formal dining area where you eat?

Live For Free: Yeah, absolutely. And just more places to clean really and taking up more of your time. But yeah, I know, you’re absolutely right. That’s another food for thought for the Fast Track Podcast.

Yasi: So, one of the last questions is, you know, if you look back, in your previous years with real estate investing and your downgrade, what you wish you could/ should have done earlier if you can start it over again?

Live For Free: Well, so the way most real estate investors get into the real estate game, and this is a common mistake I didn’t do, but this is a common mistake that real estate and new real estate investors happen to have is they’ll re-mortgage their primary residence.

And then use that money to either buy a rental house or a condo, and they’ve actually used up a lot of their cash, available cash from their house. And so, when things go wrong with either the primary residence or the rental unit, they’ve run out of money and, and they’ve underestimated the costs.

So, they get under it, they get discouraged. They’ll sell the income property at a loss and then just go tell everybody that real estate sucks. And that’s a common mistake. It happens, you know, it’s just quite common in the real estate investment industry, that’s how a lot of investors do. They just

Yeah, I’m not finding the words right now, but they just can have a tough time following through the tough times, which happens in the first couple of years of real estate investing.

And another big mistake that new investors have is they won’t educate themselves. And, you know, what’s there to know really; buy the place, get a Facebook ad and get it rented.

And so, I really recommend that you educate yourself, you read a book, find a mentor, hire a real estate consultant, you know, take courses. If you’re going to put six figures into investing in real estate, you can pay a few thousand dollars to educate yourself. And so, for me, and that was my wife’s doing, she said, yeah, we’re going to do this, but we’re going to educate ourselves first, which I wasn’t going to do.

I watched HGTV, and I’ve seen others do it, and I know I can do it, but it was just such a smart move for us to educate ourselves. And yeah, so I mean, if I had to do it again, of course, I would have started earlier, and I would have used a CMHC back mortgage, which is kind of like a Fannie Mae mortgage to buy a triplex and just rent out the units and then even have roommates in my main unit as a young person.

I have a daughter who’s 18, and we do talk about real estate often, and I think that’s the way that she’s going to do it. And I’m really looking forward to guiding her through this. And she’s already asked for my help, so it’s gonna be really fun to watch.

Yasi: And since your Twitter name is Live4free, give us some ideas on how can someone live for free?

Live For Free: Here’s the thing: I’ve actually been having a hard time finding people that do what I do, that will house hack or real estate hack. It’s actually not that common, but, you know, I do send the question out to Twitter every now and then, and people have come back living with their parents, and as many people do, and you can do that for as long as the relationship works. And you can house hack, you know, buy the house where you have the roommates. I’ve done this, and it’s worked well. I’ve heard of people living in camper vans, and they actually live a really good life, just, you know, they can travel where they want. It is quite cheap to live that way.

I have a couple that bought a small resort, and they live on the resort, and the cash flow from that resort pays for everything. Now, this is a goal of mine. I want to move to a Caribbean location where I can get her property, and whether it be a bunkhouse or a hotel or resort, and I’ll stay there and operate it, and you know, the staycation, right?

And yeah, that’s a goal of mine, to house hack or real estate hack in a nicer environment or a nicer climate.

Yasi: Love it. I was obsessed with tiny houses a few months ago when the lockdown just started, and I’ve been watching a lot of tiny houses and apartments. I wanted to move into a tiny house because it’s more economical, it saves money, and it’s just cute.

And then after a while, during this lockdown, and then my husband and I were saying like, we would go crazy if we just stayed in this 20 square meters tiny house.

Live For Free: Yeah, for sure. I mean, if you’re going to try something new, maybe try it during normal times. But yeah, I love the tiny house idea. You know, and it doesn’t have to be forever, right?

It can just be for a couple of years. There are experiences out there that people will just negate right off the bat, saying, I could never do this. Well, if you say you can never do it, of course, it’s not going to happen. But if you want to try something, then, by all means, try it. You’re your own person.

Go ahead. And that’s why I always go back to The Four Hour Workweek. What’s the worst that can happen? Calculate it out and just go on from there. It’s so fun.

Yasi: Yeah. And I like this saying, move yourself, actually, you are another tree. Because oftentimes we think about buying a property, we like kind of tie to the property. It’s very difficult for people to think, like, maybe it’s a transition period. Maybe you can downgrade or upgrade in the future, but once we buy a property, kind of seeing ourselves living there for 30, 40, 50 years.

Live For Free: I love it. I love it. And it even comes down to comfort zone, right? When you can get yourself out of your comfort zone, great things will happen, different experiences, and meeting different people. If you’re living in the same house for the same amount of time, it does get comfortable. And you’ll even find yourself stagnating if you don’t force yourself to grow.

So, getting yourself out of your comfort zone would be, is just a great way to grow.

Yasi: Exactly. You can grow as a person. You can grow your net worth as well.

Live For Free: That’s right. That’s the name of the game.

Yasi: Can you tell our audience again what’s your Twitter handle and then they can follow you there?

Live For Free: Yeah, I’m on Twitter, and it’s just Live4Free.

Yasi: Love it. Thank you so much for coming here today. It was such a pleasure talking to you, and I hope the audience will find this content interesting.

Live For Free: Absolutely. I mean, follow me on Twitter. I’m working on more things, and stay tuned, there’s more to come.

Yasi: Okay. I will watch it.

Live For Free: Excellent. Thank you, Yasi, and I love what you’ve been doing here. Thank you so much for having me. I had a lot of fun talking to you.

Yasi: Same here. Bye-bye.